Monday, June 19, 2006

Chabad Messianism: "We Need the Eggs"

When I read anti-Chabad articles, I'm reminded of the Woody Allen joke about the man who tells the psychiatrist, "My brother thinks he's a chicken." The psychiatrist responds, "Bring him in and I'm sure I can cure him." To which the man responds, "I would, but we need the eggs."

1. Does Judaism include the possibility of a dead Messiah? Looking at Chabad's sources (Gemara Perek Chelek, Abarbanel, S'de Chemed), I'd have to say yes, there is such a possibility, although it is extremely marginal within Judaism. (This proves that, thanks to the computer, it is now possible to find almost anything in Jewish sources)

2. Could such a view be harmful to Judaism in the long run? Yes, because it opens the door for Christian missionaries to sell their favorite candidate for dead Messiah to uninformed Jews.

3. In the meanwhile, Chabad is a tremendously vital force in promoting and preserving Judaism, e.g., Chabad houses in the furthest corners of the earth. And, let's face it, such an operation could only be caried out by people who believe they serve in the army of a Rebbe who is the leading candidate to be Mashiach. Otherwise, most of them would pack up and move back to the comforts of Crown Heights.

So, if there were another, non-Messianic Jewish group that was willing to step up to the plate and do what Chabad does for Judaism - I'd endorse them wholeheartedly, and send Chabad to the shrink for treatment. But, there isn't such an alternative, and "we need the eggs", we need what Chabad does for Jews around the world.


Anonymous said...

There are no sources for identifying with certainty a certain person as moshiach when he does not have the qualifications for it; especially when he is no longer with us, espcially when he was declared moshiach in his lifetime and not suceeded to bring the redmeption, where Maimonedes clearly rules out such a possibility. NOne of the sources that you mention allow for this kind of proclamation, especially the Rambam who rules out completely such a possibility.

בטל בששים said...

I don't say the Chabad case has any "certainty" to it, I just say it is a (remote) possibility. As for arguments over exactly how to interpret the Rambam - "Tishbi yetaretz kushyot v'she'aylot" - let the Mashiach come speedily in our days and tell us what the Rambam meant.

Anonymous said...

The Rambam is clear, check it out: once someone was presumed the Messiah and did not succeed "beyadua sheeynoh zeh" it is known that it is not the one whom Hashem promised.

Anonymous said...

Otherwise, most of them would pack up and move back to the comforts of Crown Heights.

And do what? Let's face it, Chabad has a good make-work program setup. It's not a handout - these couples work very hard to raise funds, and most of them are barely making enough to support their rather large families. But it's entirely unclear that Crown Heights could provide enough work to to otherwise keep these people going.

Anonymous said...

At least quote the rambam accurately. He says that once the chachamim saw that bar kochba was "neherag" -- killed for his sins -- they knew he could not be Moshiach.

Let's be real: The majority, if not vast majority, of Chabadniks today are quite frankly tired of that particular issue. The Chabad Shluchim are out there as you say in the Rebbe's army because they believe in his teachings, in his inspiration, and in his direction -- because they believe that Ahavat Yisrael is something we're really supposed to experience and care about, not just pay lip service to. Yes, there is an argument to be made for "rebbe as moshiach" based on various sources--halachic, midrashic, and kabbalistic/chassidic--and yes, many Chabad Chassidim may choose to hold that belief. But to the vast majority of them -- outside of some very vocal minorities -- that is not a key component of their identity or even their philosophy/theology.

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anon chabadsker, please look at the source quoted here (as opposed to repeated slogans and misquotes):

ואם לא הצליח עד כה...בידוע שאינו זה שהבטיחה עליו תורה,

it clearly states that when the presumed messiah did "not succeed" to bring forth the final redemption (building of the Beys Hamikdash and ingathering of the exiles he is KNOWN not to be the messiah!

Precisely because they claim that they are doing "ahavas yisroel" (as opposed to "lip service") it is even more important to reject a position that inevitably leads to division and machlokess and hatred of ahavas yisroel. As much ahavas yisroel many of the shlichim brought to klal yisroel, equally so, they (and it includes many "non meshichistin" and many shilichim who are closet meshichistin) brought sinat yisroel, divisiness and worse: when do so using the garb of they claim "ahavat yisroel", (and are highly hypochritical) and attack anyone who dares disagree with them with the most vile and contemptuos remarks.

Therefore it is imperative to deny and reject outrightly any claim that there are "sources" for rebbe = moshiach; there are NO sources whatsoever! every source is a non starter at best or a source for the opposite at worse!

No source for identifying a particular leader who passed away to be the certain moshiach; it is unprecedented in the kosher history. And on the contrary, the aforementioned *Rambam* (the one whom the Rebbe said is the sole authority on moshiach issues and used very harsh languages on those who accepted positions of medrash which were contradicted by Rambam) rules unequivocally that someone who was perceived as the messiah and did not succeed is unequivocally known not to be the messiah!

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An alternative to Chabad is Aish HaTorah, a modern Orthodox program with an outstanding yeshiva, website, and teachers.

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Aish is a modern Orthodox program?

joshwaxman said...

also, IIRC, it is not Sedei Chemed who says it, but a citation of a rabbi who who wrote to him, where this is embedded in the larger letter that contained the question.

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